Welcome to the Theory Forum

Steve Lawson and Gonzo can get you thinking out of the box right here.

Bass Line for the first piece

Postby Cheap Bass Tard » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:41 am

Been meaning to mess with this a bit. First one was fairly easy. On songs like this where the key center is a moving target and there are lots of chord changes, I'll typically stick with chord tones

Imageand maybe some chromaticism, but nothing too fancy or I'm liable to hurt myself. Anyway, here's the line:
USACG J-bass, P-neck, Nordies w/3-band Aggie pre
Atkinson Custom J-bass, P-neck, Nordy Big Singles and 3-band pre.
GB Shuttle 9.0, Uberbass 410
User avatar
Cheap Bass Tard
 
Location: Phoenix

Postby Cheap Bass Tard » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:46 am

Here's my line to the other song. Had a hard time deciding on a rhythm to work with. The first four bars are kinda cliche' with the 1-3-5-7/3-1-7-5, bars 4 and 5 are chord tones, bar 7 I decided to get adventurous and play in G mixolydian over the Dm7 and I originally hit G on the one, but coming from the A7 it was too weird so I switched the G and D hence those two big intervallic leaps (I try to play fairly linear when I can) and for the last bar, I played Eb Ionian just for giggles. Anyway, this was a cool little adventure, although I am staying up way to frigging late trying to record the chords to play along to and hear how it sounds and then transcribe my lines. I suck at transcription but it's a good learning tool. Oh yeah, this is also my second attempt, if you think it's messy, you should have seen the first.

Image

PS Comments, critiques, etc.. of this line are welcome
Last edited by Cheap Bass Tard on Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
USACG J-bass, P-neck, Nordies w/3-band Aggie pre
Atkinson Custom J-bass, P-neck, Nordy Big Singles and 3-band pre.
GB Shuttle 9.0, Uberbass 410
User avatar
Cheap Bass Tard
 
Location: Phoenix

Re: Bass Line for the first piece

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:10 am

Cheap Bass Tard wrote:Been meaning to mess with this a bit. First one was fairly easy. On songs like this where the key center is a moving target and there are lots of chord changes, I'll typically stick with chord tones

Imageand maybe some chromaticism, but nothing too fancy or I'm liable to hurt myself. Anyway, here's the line:


I like that you started on a high B, and you keep the line going down continually. I personally don't like jumping as much from the Bb to the F in the Bb Chord nor the last few note choices near the end of the excercise. It's just my personal thing. I don't like the radical jumping. Though it works wonderfully on a purely theoritical level.

I like the begining line because it's continuous starting from the high B down to the G, where you are arpeggiating a few of the chords and all but it's a fairly cohesive line. I LOVE that Bb to the A change from the Eb to the Am7 though! God that's a hot tention/release moment!!! [smilie=icon_eek.gif]

Uber, in response to your previous posting as to Hand position:

I agree using the "box" method you aren't utalizing the full range of the instrument! I defaulted to what i know best. When I was joining Monkey they had a catalogue of 75-80 tunes I needed to learn, quickly...VERY quickly! At my peak I was fluent with about 60 of them! I did not make the time to explore alternative fingerings, I relied very heavily on what i was most comfortable with the "4th position" or middle finger starting on the root note to get through most of the tunes. I also am fairly comfortable with the "5th" position starting root note with index finger. No fault of Stephen's, completly my own doing! Infact Stephen emphasized using the full kneck as much as possible! I worked the "4th position" so much due to lack of time. (I was in school full time, working 20+hours to pay rent was active in a fraternity, had a girlfriend and was getting up to speed with Monkey)

Only a few songs did I make the effort of working alternative fingerings/shifts to utalize more of the fretboard fully. I keep finding and misplacing my chord chart list of the 80 tunes and recently emailed the band leader to resend it to me so I can rework many of the tunes. So with the excercise, I defaulted to what I know and am most comfortable with. I still haven't PLAYED the line I created yet to find out if I truly like it!
"Moobs Mute Strings"
Monkeyboy
 
Location: West Sacto

Postby Uberjam » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:58 am

Bass Tard, I like your walk this line. The jumps in the last bar remind me of Ron Carter. I had a book of his lines once and it was full of angular jumps that resolved in half steps. Is that an Eden world tour in your picture? I love those amps. Have you ever tried a Euphonic Audio? I like your more soloistic approach to " I should care ". If I was going to substitute changes like the Eb Major over the ii - V7 in the last bar I would want to make sure the other chording intruments were doing the same unless it was for soloing then you can do whatever you want. Did you shift to Am7 over the G7 in the third bar? Are you subbing a natural minor over the mixolydian or a dorian while treating G as the tonic? I like the rhythmic ideas you used. What kind of drum pattern were you hearing with it? Oh yeah I love the anticipation of the C Maj chord in the third bar. It sounds even stronger because that's the tonic. The more I play this line the more it sounds like latin fusion to me. I think with that style you could pull off the chord subs without worrying to much about the piano player getting mad at you. What styles do you like to play?


Monkeyboy, I totally understand using what is comfortable. I was thrown into a group once, with a list of upcoming gigs and no rehersals beforehand. I listened to some recordings and working on the most important lines I could hear. Even though I was in college for bass at the time I reverted back to some of my more horrible high school techniques because they were, at the time, more comfortable and I knew they would work. Technique is a funny thing. I've found once I learn something one way it's hard to learn it again another way unless I try to apply it 24/7. In a recent big band rehearsal I had I attempted to sight read new material using only fifth position and above because I knew that most of the time I relied on lower positions. Toward the end of the rehearsal I was sneaking back down the neck for the comfortable positions but I knew that it was good practice to force myself higher.


Here is my line to "I should care". I kept it simple but incorporated two important, I think anyway, walking bassline ideas. One happens in the second bar. I substitute an Eb7 in place of the A7. I know, I know they are a b5 or #4 from each other. It's called a tritone substitution. It works because it chromatically links the chord before and after it. Almost anytime you have a dominant chord between two chords that are seperated by a whole step you can substitute the middle chord for it's Tritone, at least in jazz that is. Next time you're sitting in with a group or jamming or whatever, try subbing a chord like this and watch your piano players face. If he's good he'll catch it the next time around and you'll hear how cool it can sound. The second technique is something I found in Ray Brown's method book. He called it a rake. In the sixth bar you see a high A played on the G string suddenly drop to the low open A and tie into the next beat. This is a classic sound that can really make a simple line sound cool. It obscures the pulse for just a second and draws attention to the bass. Everything else is pretty straight forward, simple scalar walking patterns always work well to support a soloist. I'm going to be out in the woods for most of Janurary so I apologize in advance for not responding until Feburary. I look forward to reading your responses. Later on, Uber
Attachments
shouldcare.jpg
shouldcare.jpg (29.13 KiB) Viewed 1273 times
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Cheap Bass Tard » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:29 pm

Uberjam wrote:Bass Tard, I like your walk this line. The jumps in the last bar remind me of Ron Carter. I had a book of his lines once and it was full of angular jumps that resolved in half steps. Is that an Eden world tour in your picture? I love those amps. Have you ever tried a Euphonic Audio? I like your more soloistic approach to " I should care ". If I was going to substitute changes like the Eb Major over the ii - V7 in the last bar I would want to make sure the other chording intruments were doing the same unless it was for soloing then you can do whatever you want. Did you shift to Am7 over the G7 in the third bar? Are you subbing a natural minor over the mixolydian or a dorian while treating G as the tonic? I like the rhythmic ideas you used. What kind of drum pattern were you hearing with it? Oh yeah I love the anticipation of the C Maj chord in the third bar. It sounds even stronger because that's the tonic. The more I play this line the more it sounds like latin fusion to me. I think with that style you could pull off the chord subs
without worrying to much about the piano player getting mad at you. What styles do you like to play?



Uber -the amp is a world traveler 550 and I really like it. Was actually thinking EA, but I've read a lot of buzz where folks are having a difficult time tweaking due to the complexity of the EQ section, plus I got a screaming deal on the Eden on eBay. On the Eb over the F-, it was a bit of a stretch, but sounded fine when played over the chords I recorded. The third bar, I just kind of avoided the G altogether, but sort of implied it with the B and the D which are the 3rd and 5th of the G. As for the rhythmic ideas, I actually heard the song in my head as 4 beats per chord instead of two so when I played it with the chords in tempo (60 bpm) it played much faster. Also, there were a couple errors in my transcription which I fixed above. Stylistically, I guess I like to play funk, but I'm not too good at it. I typically write fairly melodic lines b/c I often learn sonds without accompaniment so the bass has to function both melodically and harmonically. That's good and bad - good is my playing is melodic and doesn't clash/ bad is that my harmonies aren't often as adventuresome as they could be and also I tend to be "notey" i.e. overplaying if I don't watch it. Also, I've noticed that I often don't play the same note twice or bounce back and forth between 2 notes. I haven't been playing bass that long (4 years, maybe closer to 5) so still a lot to learn - such as transcribing things right the FIRST time. This was a fun exercise, but it took me a while in between writing the line, then recording the chords to play over it, then fixing the line where I didn't like the sound, then transcribing the whole thing, I dunno maybe 90 minutes. That's probably my biggest hurdle in playing -- I'd love to be able to play a line like that on the fly, but got a ways to go to get there.


Uberjam wrote:Here is my line to "I should care". I kept it simple but incorporated two important, I think anyway, walking bassline ideas. One happens in the second bar. I substitute an Eb7 in place of the A7. I know, I know they are a b5 or #4 from each other. It's called a tritone substitution. It works because it chromatically links the chord before and after it. Almost anytime you have a dominant chord between two chords that are seperated by a whole step you can substitute the middle chord for it's Tritone, at least in jazz that is. Next time you're sitting in with a group or jamming or whatever, try subbing a chord like this and watch your piano players face. If he's good he'll catch it the next time around and you'll hear how cool it can sound. The second technique is something I found in Ray Brown's method book. He called it a rake. In the sixth bar you see a high A played on the G string suddenly drop to the low open A and tie into the next beat. This is a classic sound that can really make a simple line sound cool. It obscures the pulse for just a second and draws attention to the bass. Everything else is pretty straight forward, simple scalar walking patterns always work well to support a soloist. I'm going to be out in the woods for most of Janurary so I apologize in advance for not responding until Feburary. I look forward to reading your responses. Later on, Uber


Like the tritone sub -- nice. Will listen to it over the chords. Not familiar with the rake, but it does sound cool.

I hope more guys will chime in with some ideas. Maybe be a good idea to start another thread like this in its own thread so more guys will read it. Unless of course they're all too wussy to post their transcriptions. [smilie=cheeky-smiley-025.gif]
USACG J-bass, P-neck, Nordies w/3-band Aggie pre
Atkinson Custom J-bass, P-neck, Nordy Big Singles and 3-band pre.
GB Shuttle 9.0, Uberbass 410
User avatar
Cheap Bass Tard
 
Location: Phoenix

Postby Uberjam » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:13 am

Bass Tard, I forgot to mention something important about the rake in my last post. You're supposed to rake your fingers across the other strings when you drop like that. They create a few little percussive thuds that sound cool right before you hit the lower note. This effect works best on upright but can sound cool on electric too.
It's hard not to play too many notes sometimes. Sometimes I have to remind myself not play so many notes all the time. That's cool that you play real melodically. I can do little melodic fills but playing a long melody gets ackward for me. I hope more people get involved also.

Uber
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Re: Welcome to the Theory Forum

Postby Tucson Bass Player » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:19 pm

Great thread you guys! Lets keep it going.
User avatar
Tucson Bass Player
 
Location: Tucson,Az. USA
Links: www.tucsonbassplayer.blogspot.com

Re: Welcome to the Theory Forum

Postby GLJeff » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:33 am

Here's a recent favorite of mine, an altered scale also known as the Super Locrian scale. These can be used to solo over altered dominant chords. The first half of the scale is diminished and the second half is all whole tones. This is a progression not the actual scale.

Image
GLJeff
 

Previous

Return to CHARTS & THEORY



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron