Welcome to the Theory Forum

Steve Lawson and Gonzo can get you thinking out of the box right here.

Welcome to the Theory Forum

Postby GonzoBass » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:22 pm

Here's where we can discuss all the scary, gory details of music theory.

Remember though...
It's all just a theory.
lol

Aloha-
Gonzo
User avatar
GonzoBass
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Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Links: .
Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
Steinberger XP2 (B-E-A-D)
Steinberger XP2A (Back Up)
Wilkat GonzoBass #001
Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Postby Armybass » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:15 pm

Great! You can never stop learning and growing in music. I hope to get some inspiration to take my playing up to the next level and this site and forum will be a great help.

Congrats Gonzo
Armybass
 

Postby GonzoBass » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:35 am

Thanks!
...and thanks to Pete for the invite!!!

I don't claim to know as much as Segovia did (who does, right?:rolleyes:) but I'll do my best to help out with any question or topic that comes up.

Like they taught us in college:
You don't have to know everything, you just have to know where to look it up!
:wink:

-G
User avatar
GonzoBass
Global Bouncer
 
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Links: .
Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
Steinberger XP2 (B-E-A-D)
Steinberger XP2A (Back Up)
Wilkat GonzoBass #001
Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Postby randall » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:16 pm

Yeah! this is gonna be good! I' have been wishing for a forum just like this. lay it on bros!
randall
 

Postby Uberjam » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:37 am

I've taken a couple of online classes from adam nitti's online bass school.

http://www.musicdojo.com

I took the intro class, an improv class of adam's, and a thump tech class from anthony wellington (one of vic's bass buddies)

I learned a lot and the information doesn't expire, I had some army stuff come up in the middle of the thump class so a few weeks after the army stuff was done I came back to the class and caught up. Basically they take some good information and break it up into bite size peices or daily lessons. The video and audio examples are really nice and I like the format of the classes. They have a theory and harmony class as well as an ear training class.


ANYWAY... what theory does everybody want to talk about?? I would like to know how everybody walks. I think being able to walk a smooth jazz line is really important. I mentioned in another post that even if you're not big into jazz being able to walk a line is important. Styles like motown borrow a lot from jazz. So here is my first challenge. Write a line with these changes (the first four bars of giant steps) and we'll talk about. I'll post mine soon..Here they are.


B / D7 / l G / Bb7 / l Eb / / / l Am7 / D7 l G.....

I included the G in the fifth bar because it will effect what notes you play over the D7 preceding it. Can't wait to see how different everybody's lines will be.

Later, Uber
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:24 am

I've got a question:

I've been slowly working on learning the different modes. Some of them I like for the fingering, tonal "color" whatever. What I'm not sure is how to communicate the mode scale I'm using to a chordial thing.

For example, in C Major I can just yell to guitarist/keyboardist "Play a C Chord" ditto with minor.

How do I express if I'm playing a C Dorian or Mixylodian scale to the chordal instruments what chord to play?!

Uber, is it a 4/4 time sig? Also, 1 chord per measure? I'm assuming yes but that might effect the note choices I would make. NICE CHALLENGE!!!
"Moobs Mute Strings"
Monkeyboy
 
Location: West Sacto

Postby Uberjam » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:21 am

Monkyboy, Generally chordal instruments aren't going to think of the modes the same way we will.


"How do I express if I'm playing a C Dorian or Mixylodian scale to the chordal instruments what chord to play?!"

If you're playing a "c" Dorian mode then you can tell the chordal instrument to play in Bb Major, c minor, d minor, Eb Major, F dominant , g minor, or a diminished, all based off the Bb Major Tonic.

The tonic is like the root and when playing modally you can relate everything to the major scale. When you want to play on one specific mode and you have a chordal instrument to jam with, then it's up to you to decide what kind of color you'd like to play with. Try them all. If you have somebody that is willing to try new stuff with you and just jam take full advantage of that. I spent most of my college time learning to paint musically with a guitarist friend of mine. I would steer clear of the diminished modes unless you just use them in passing.


B / D7 / l G / Bb7 / l Eb / / / l Am7 / D7 l G.....


The slashes are beats in the measure and the straight up and down lines are like bar lines. So it's two beats of B, two beats of D7, then on to the next measure, they are all only two beats except for the measure that is all Eb and yes it's in common, or 4/4 time. I'm going to write a bass line for it, scan it and post it in a moment.

Nice signature, Uber
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Uberjam » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:52 am

Here is my little bassline for the changes I posted above.
Attachments
walkthisone.jpg
walkthisone.jpg (23.5 KiB) Viewed 2445 times
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 am

I lOVE your Eb to Am7 Transition!

Damn, gotta think of something else to do there!
"Moobs Mute Strings"
Monkeyboy
 
Location: West Sacto

Postby Monkeyboy » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:05 pm

I've got a moment of downtime here at work. I printed out the measure. I will go home and actually PLAY through some of the changes.

I'll do the quick lazy analysis:

B (With Pinky, 7th fret E string)
C# (4th fret A string)/
D (middle finger 5th fret A string)
D (middle finger 5th fret A string)/
G (middle finger 5th fret D string)
A (pinky 7th fret of D string)/
Bb (index finger, 3rd fret G string)
A (pinky 7th fret of D string)/
Eb (ring finger, 6th fret A string)
F (index finger 3rd fret on D string)
G (middle finger 5th fret on D string)
Ab (ring finger 6th fret on D string)
A (pinky finger, 7th fret on D string)
G (middle finger, 5th fret D string)
F# (index finger 4th fret on D string)
D (middle finger 5th fret on A string)
G (index finger, 3rd fret E string)

Sorry with no scanning ability here at work...and just making it up off the top of my head without instrument in hand...and stealing your Eb/Am7 transition. It's just too good to pass up that wonderful Ab-A halfnote tention!
"Moobs Mute Strings"
Monkeyboy
 
Location: West Sacto

Postby Uberjam » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:20 pm

Monkeyboy, Nice line, I should have used C# in the first bar instead of C. In the second bar you might want for your second A to be an Ab which is the dominant 7 of Bb and would fit the scale. But the A natural still works somewhat because of the other A natural leading into it. The chromatic shift from Eb to Am7 is hard to pass up and I like that you play the third first on the D7 chord. That idea always sounds good over a dominant chord. Good job, I found in interesting that you included the fingerings for your line. I know on my bass the 7th fret of the E string is a little boomy and I wouldn't start a line with my pinky finger unless i had to. what kind of bass to you play? I know you said you worked out the line in your head at the office, but would you normally play in that position? I learned to use the ring and pinky fingers as one finger for playing upright and unless I'm in an upper position I normally play electric that way. It helps to think in groups of three while down near the home position. But as always... if it works for you, it works.

Thanks, I hope more people respond

Uberjam
Attachments
monkeyline.jpg
monkeyline.jpg (58.7 KiB) Viewed 2429 times
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Monkeyboy » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:20 am

I play a Fender Mexican made. Flatwounds, I still need to slap on my custom Labella's I got from bassguitarstrings.us but I haven't been playing consistently enough. Don't want to deal with blisters yet.

To answer your question, yes I would actually start a line with my pinky on the 7th fret. It's a habit, based on my lessons with Steven Doherty out of Castro Valley. His claim to fame was teaching Cliff Burton, and getting cliff into classic music.

Steve teaches...I believe I read it's referred to as the "4th" position. Generally speaking your starting note of the chord and or scale is played with the middle finger. I took it a step further in analysing the progression and realizing the the 5th fret D on the A string is a main crossroad for most of the chords. So in my head, again not actually playing the line I though of the progression being based on D/Dm and keeping my middle finger in that position.

The reason for this is my "business person" mentality-I am constantly looking for the best way/most effecient way to do something with the least amount of effort/movement. Something steve teaches and enforces as well.

DOH!!! You're right!!! I meant Ab not A in that Bb7 chord!!! It does work creating EXTRA tention that doesn't really need to be there releasing into the Eb, I really did mean Ab! I debating playing a G there as well for it's dual function as the major 6th of the Bb7 and the minor 3rd of Eb. Again, I need to actually sit down with the bass and play this through to decide what i like better.

As to the F# in the D7, I normally would play the root note on the beginning of a chord but creating that scalular decending line from the previous chord I felt made more sense, then dropping to the D solidified it was a D major chord of somesort. Let the chordial/melodic instruments play the Dom 7th in this case. Another variation I was thinking of was to play D, then C.

What is the next chord/measure starting with the G at the end of this little Challenge. I dropped to the low G assuming I was going to start walking back up to another chord.

*A note I like this challenge, we should have another thread of challenges like this...that and I wish more people would post in this section! I've already learned so much from those who have posted here, and am able to push on that knowledge to my students!
"Moobs Mute Strings"
Monkeyboy
 
Location: West Sacto

Postby Uberjam » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:39 am

Monkeyboy, Was Steven Dohertys main instrument classical guitar? Lot's of guitar technique can transfer to bass playing. The mexican fenders are good basses. Labella strings are good too, I used those for a long time. They don't tear up the finger board as much as some.

I learned first on an upright bass. You really can't play in the lower positions with a four note spread. You have to turn your pinky and ring finger into one finger. I call it the third finger since Simandl (classical upright bass method book author) uses only 1's 2's and 3's in the lower positions. I think using third finger in lower positions gives me a stronger more accurate sound. Economically speaking it is good to stay in one position. However, I've found it's kind of hard to use the full range of the bass from one position. Classical theory teaches shifts. You learn to shift economically to keep the movement to a minimum and the intonation correct. The intonation isn't really an issue with a fretted instrument but if you've ever landed on a fret and got that ackward buzz sound you know why it's still just as important. I'll have to check out this Doherty guy, does he have a web site? Cliff Burton was a bas ass. I learned his bass solo a few years ago but I haven't practiced it in a long time.

I'm glad you liked the walking challenge. I'll put up a longer section next time. and yeah I hope more people respond soon.
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Uberjam » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:42 am

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Here is a new set of changes to write a line to. Watch out for too much dissonance on the E halfdim7 chord in the fifth bar. Remember also that you don't have to hit ever change with the root and that sometimes it's better to use the third. This is the first 8 bars to a great ballad called " I should care ", but you don't have to think of the changes as a ballad. I'll put my line up soon. I hope to hear from a lot of people so we can really discuss walking theory, happy holidays.

Uberjam
Attachments
changes.jpg
changes.jpg (24.31 KiB) Viewed 2389 times
Only sick music makes money today.
-Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
User avatar
Uberjam
 
Location: Baghdad, Iraq
Links: Basses:
Marcus Miller signature Fender Jazz V
American Standard Fender Jazz IV
3/4 kay style upright

Gear:
Genz Benz 750 head
Genz Benz 6x10 cab
Tech 21 Sans Amp RBI preamp
TC Electronic C400XL Dual channel compressor

Extra toys:
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
Electro-Harmonix Octave Multiplexer
Boss overdrive
Digi-tech sub octave synth
Boss loop station
Boss super octave
Boss bass chorus
Boss bass synth
Boss flanger

Recording gear:
Macbook
Ableton live 8
Korg Pandora's box PX5D
Boss DR3 Drum Machine

Postby Monkeyboy » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:18 am

Not sure if Steve started out on guitar or not. He plays bass as far as I know. He has a drum machine and keyboard set up in the studio were he conducts lessons. Not sure steve has a website or a myspace or anything. I was referred to him via a former student who went to CSU Hayward as well. He taught/teaches above ABC music in Castro Valley right on Castro Valley Blvd. I haven't had contact with him in...5 or 6 years now since I joined Monkey. Been meaning to call him to thank him and shoot him one of the cd's I'm on. That and I think I still owe him for some lessons [smilie=confused-smiley-013.gif]

A buddy from college who is/was a doubler...well he mainly plays upright now...he showed me the upright fingering. I do occassionally use it, now that I'm teaching I'm expanding my fingerings and all.

I haven't gotten to reworking the 1st challenge yet.

I'll have a go at this one as well!
"Moobs Mute Strings"
Monkeyboy
 
Location: West Sacto

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