He Did A Bad Bad Thing

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He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby Ben Esparza » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:21 pm

My brother, who's a guitard, called me last night to tell me that he took his newly acquired Fender American Standard Jazz Bass to a guy that puts this brass inserts into the neck heel where the mounting holes are and reattaches the neck using machine screws instead of the wood screws. Being a guitard and into Gibsons, he said, "Now it's more like a neck through or set neck bass." I haven't seen nor heard the bass since he had this done, but I almost hit the ceiling. I was calm and asked why. He said for the "greater sustain" and "firmer neck-joint" advantages. I can almost guarantee it no longer sounds the way it did prior to this work. Anyone ever heard of this being done to a bolt-on neck bass? If so, good or bad? At face value, I'd say bad.
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby harleyyy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:52 pm

The only value add I'd expect is avoiding the screws stripping the wood.


http://www.onyxforgeguitars.com/Insert%20kit.html
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby Ben Esparza » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:10 pm

Pete,

The link you posted is exactly where he went to have the work done. Maybe there is no tonal difference. I haven't heard or played it since he had it done.
"You can talk about virtuosity all you want, but what it comes down to is you're supposed to back up the other guys. They're not supposed to notice you until you stop."
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby Cheap Bass Tard » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:14 pm

Our own Rod Banach of Regenerate Guitar Works uses inserts and machine screws on his neck installs if I am recalling correctly.

Primary advantage is the ability to install and remove the neck repeatedly and less chance of stripping out the wood.

I can't imagine a discernable tonal difference.
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby GonzoBass » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:44 pm

The Steinberger bolts have brass inserts and bolts
as well as the Moses neck for my Wilkat too.
[smilie=confused-smiley-013.gif]

I'd tend to think that as long as the neck-to-body connection is solid,
it shouldn't affect tone/sustain.

The only real advantage I can imagine is
if you had to remove the neck (often) for truss rod access.

Would really be interested to know what you think after you've played it!
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby ghiadub » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:51 pm

I just put together a G&L Lynx body (that flamed one) with a Moses neck I got from Russ and used the inserts. I had those in all my modulus basses too.

The Lynx sounds way better but I think that is more the graphite neck than the attachment method.
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby Ben Esparza » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:44 am

He said the action seems higher than it was prior to the modification. Could it be that the neck heel has been drawn "ever-so-tighter" to the neck cavity?
"You can talk about virtuosity all you want, but what it comes down to is you're supposed to back up the other guys. They're not supposed to notice you until you stop."
- Keith Ferguson
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby basswinn » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:17 pm

Ben Esparza wrote:He said the action seems higher than it was prior to the modification. Could it be that the neck heel has been drawn "ever-so-tighter" to the neck cavity?


More likely it changed the tilt.
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby steveonbass » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:33 pm

I can't imagine why the action would be higher unless he adjusted the truss or just changed the setup in general.

Brass inserts, IMO, add no tonal advantage whatsoever. They could possibly move the dead spot somewhere else. I have taken apart and reassembled hundreds of vintage Fenders in my life. Never encountered a stripped neck hole. I don't understand this "upgrade".
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby harleyyy » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:43 pm

steveonbass wrote: Never encountered a stripped neck hole. I don't understand this "upgrade".


Strangely enough, I have a 73P here with 2 stripped holes. I rather plug them with dowels and glue, then re-drill than go this route. It also has a ski sloped neck, so MAYBE this would help? [smilie=grinning-smiley-044.gif]
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby noahvale » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:48 pm

I've always just stuffed some toothpicks in the hole if it gets loose.
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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby Golem » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:29 pm

Ben Esparza wrote:He said the action seems higher than it was prior to the modification. Could it be
that the neck heel has been drawn "ever-so-tighter" to the neck cavity?


Either a shim was lost, or some primer crud was cleaned outa the neck socket.
A shim of about 1 biz card at the back of the socket will tip the headstock down
by several biz card's worth, due to the approx 4" from the front of the socket to
the rear vs over 20" from the front of the socket to the headstock. This also
works vice versa. Shimming is how you avoid having to set your saddles silly
high or low on some basses.

EBMMs almost always have shims, as-built. They even color code the shims for
thickness. What I've never figgered out is: When swapping necks between MM's,
does the shim "belong" to the neck or the body ? It would seem that necks would
be shaped to a finer tolerance than a body socket, but after a few swaps, I've
still got no useful findings. I wind up making new shims every time.

As for sustain, no effect should occur. Mentally "weld" the brass inserts to the
machine screws .... now they are really wood screws [mentally anywayz ... ].

My Moses necks all have brass inserts. Some P-bass players go for inserts cuz
they hafta loosen and tilt the neck to access the truss rod adjuster. In such
applications as the P-bass adjuster thing, it's necessary to have 2 holes in the
shim thru which the screws pass, so the shim isn't lost or shifted when the
neck heal is tipped up for adjusting the rod. Acoarst thaz for wood necks. A
Moses neck is set-it-and-forget-it, climate-wise.


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Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby GonzoBass » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:35 am

Ben Esparza wrote:He said the action seems higher than it was prior to the modification. Could it be that the neck heel has been drawn "ever-so-tighter" to the neck cavity?

...or with all the strings (and their tension) removed at once the neck "sprung"?
[smilie=confused-smiley-013.gif]
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Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Links: .
Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
Steinberger XP2 (B-E-A-D)
Steinberger XP2A (Back Up)
Wilkat GonzoBass #001
Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Re: He Did A Bad Bad Thing

Postby Rob Francis » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:23 pm

Cheap Bass Tard wrote:Our own Rod Banach of Regenerate Guitar Works uses inserts and machine screws on his neck installs if I am recalling correctly.

Primary advantage is the ability to install and remove the neck repeatedly and less chance of stripping out the wood.

I can't imagine a discernable tonal difference.

+1
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