Waterslide application to a neck...

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Waterslide application to a neck...

Postby spideyjg » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:14 pm

Been restoring a bass and found a 70's Precision TV logo.

I dig what the Birchwood Casey does to enhance the grain on the neck and if possible want to oil the headstock to bring out the grain there as well then lacquer over the face after the waterslide is applied.

Can this be done?

The headstock has no finish on it since the poly flaked off everything.

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Re: Waterslide application to a neck...

Postby Ken Baker » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:23 pm

spideyjg wrote:Been restoring a bass and found a 70's Precision TV logo.

I dig what the Birchwood Casey does to enhance the grain on the neck and if possible want to oil the headstock to bring out the grain there as well then lacquer over the face after the waterslide is applied.

Can this be done?

The headstock has no finish on it since the poly flaked off everything.


I assume you're using Tru-Oil?

I don't think so, but if you have your heart set on Tru-Oil, test, test, test. Make the assumption that the lacquer will solve (melt) anything else you've applied until you know otherwise. Also make the assumption that the decal is going to give you a lot of adhesion grief on the oil. You really need to know what's going to happen to the Tru-Oil if lacquer is applied over it. Lacquer, being pretty high VOC and a "light" solvent, will certainly raise Hell with any wax you might have down. It will probably also raise Hell with the oil.

The MSDS for the Tru-Oil states that its carrier is mineral spirits - paint thinner or Stoddard Solvent. Given enough time, the carrier will evap off leaving the linseed oil and whatever other (proprietary) oil is in there. These oils eventually dry out or evap off, and as such, are designed to be re-applied periodically to protect the underlying wood and to restore luster. This makes it great for wood items, such as gunstocks, that may see a fair amount of use and abuse. Compare this to the old school boiled linseed oil that is thinned with turpentine, heated 'til you see vapors coming off the top, then applied to wood (yes - it's dangerous as Hell) such as teak. Any final overcoat would normally be a wax of some sort, which facilitates the re-apply periodically program that goes along with penetrating oil finishes, and not a seal coat such as lacquer or poly.

Something similar to the penetrating oil is penetrating resin, such as Watco. This stuff is applied pretty much the same as Tru-Oil, but it actually hardens in the wood and is a bunch stronger. It also brings out the fire in grain, and once it's fully cured, can be clearcoated. You have to be careful with the stuff because application and wipe-off rags can spontaneously combust, so buy an empty gallon paint can or approved container to store them.

Another option would be to prep the wood, apply lacquer sanding sealer, sand flat, shoot clear, apply decal, and re-shoot clear to finish. Once cured, hand buff & polish. You'd be impressed with the fire that the sanding sealer brings out of bare maple. Look at the pen I gave you a few years ago, which is lacquer sanding sealer with a poly clearcoat.

The one I gave to Dave:
Image
http://www.bassesbyleo.com/images/pens/ash_2.jpg

The one I gave to Wanda:
Image
http://www.bassesbyleo.com/images/pens/maple_4.jpg

The one I gave to you:
Image
http://www.bassesbyleo.com/images/pens/zebra_2.jpg

Ken...
...at least the doctors find me fascinating...
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Ken Baker
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Re: Waterslide application to a neck...

Postby Rob Francis » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:43 pm

Ken,
Was the birdseye dark or did the sanding sealer slightly tint it? Nice work!
Sorry if this is a hijack but "dem pens be nice"
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Re: Waterslide application to a neck...

Postby spideyjg » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:05 pm

Thanks Ken,

The bottom line is to bring out the grain and not muff with the ability to apply a waterslide decal.

I trust your sawdust making knowledge over my guess work. Are there specific products to use? I will have a pro apply the decal and do the final stuff but if I can pimp the grain at home I will.

Jim
Silverbass wrote:gawd damn the pusher man
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spideyjg
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Location: San Diego

Re: Waterslide application to a neck...

Postby Ken Baker » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:47 pm

Rob Francis wrote:Ken,
Was the birdseye dark or did the sanding sealer slightly tint it? Nice work!
Sorry if this is a hijack but "dem pens be nice"


Thanks.

The eyes were not darker than normal. What you're seeing is light reflecting differently from the various parts of the grain.

Most petroleum-based finishes "amber" woods ever so slightly without any color or pigment added to the finish. This ambering effect with lacquer sanding sealer can be striking and figured maple, a blonde wood, is a good target. The sanding sealer fills and builds and brings out the fire in the grain. The gloss topcoats add shine and depth.

The top pen is ash and I simulated a bit of sunburst with dye and an airbrush. The second pen is bird's eye maple - no color added. The third pen is zebra wood - again, no color added.

Ken...
...at least the doctors find me fascinating...
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Ken Baker
"Turn the darned thing down!!"
 
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Waterslide application to a neck...

Postby Ken Baker » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:18 pm

spideyjg wrote:Thanks Ken,

The bottom line is to bring out the grain and not muff with the ability to apply a waterslide decal.

I trust your sawdust making knowledge over my guess work. Are there specific products to use? I will have a pro apply the decal and do the final stuff but if I can pimp the grain at home I will.

Jim


Thanks.

I think that if it were mine, I'd look into using lacquer. If everything goes well, you'd get a nice vintage look due to the ambering and you'd get long lasting protection. Poly would work too, though the ambering effect would be reduced if the poly is water borne and that all you used. Watco is a good product, but I've not used it on maple - only oak where it came out beautifully. Watco is available in several tints or clear.

Whatever you use, the key is to be sure that whatever is on there now is completely gone. You really want to be down to bare wood. Remember to factor in that the old wood of that neck is slightly oxidized (not necessarily a bad thing) and will finish out a little darker than new wood.

There's a lot of validity in the "test, test, test" I mentioned above. I'd recommend that you spend a few bucks on some rock maple and any finishes you might think would work. Deft makes aerosol lacquer and poly products, all of which are good. Watco does the penetrating resin that can be clearcoated once cured. There are a lot of other types available as well. A thick, almost gel-like, wipe on varnish can do some amazing things. Mask off areas of the wood and apply the various finishes to find what fires your rocket.

Feeling "green"? Use shellac, a natural product, as your sanding sealer. It would take a load of coats to build, but it will provide some ambering. Then finish with water borne poly. You'll end up with a nice finish that's tougher than Hell. BTW - that's water borne poly on your pen.

Try this place. Pick their brains. Take the neck with you. Tell 'em what I've told you here and have them filter it based on how the wood looks and feels.

This is fun stuff.

Ken...
...at least the doctors find me fascinating...
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Ken Baker
"Turn the darned thing down!!"
 
Location: Orange County, CA


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