"The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby GonzoBass » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:56 pm

Sorry, I know my pic wasn't that good
but my doodle matches except for their placement of the cap
and the fact that they soldered the ground to the casing
(which I even tried).

The wiring is factory stock
and it's worked for 25 years.

All I did that day was contact cleaner in the pots
and a new ground wire.

Thanks a million for your time and all the help
[smilie=food-smiley-004.gif]
but I give up.
As much as it scares me to hand it off,
I'm taking it to a local tech.
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Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
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GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
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Effects:
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Rob Francis » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:52 pm

Please post the follow up.
I thought Gil nailed it with the no bridge ground quote [smilie=coz.gif]
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Gil Escalera » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:20 pm

Rob Francis wrote:I thought Gil nailed it with the no bridge ground quote [smilie=coz.gif]

Different bass, different issue Rob.
The "Workhorse" is his #1 Steinberger XP bass. It's passive.
The "Active" is his Steinberger XP-A bass. It of course is active.

The Workhorse has a buzzing issue, and the Active has an anemic tone compared to the Workhorse's tone.

Gonz, if the wiring is okie-dokie, then it sounds like you have a worn out pot. The contact cleaner just exposed it even more.

Contact cleaner is not good for pots. Pots are "moving" parts and moving parts need lubricant. Contact cleaner does a good job of removing dirt, grime, etc. but it also removes any lubricant as well. When the lubricant is removed it causes high friction to the conductive surface (plastic, film, metal, etc.) of the pot and wears the component faster. Kinda like cleaning bearings with degreaser and not putting new grease on them.

For cleaning pots I would suggest using Caig's DeoxIT Fader F5 cleaner/lubricant. This is designed for moving parts à la pots and faders. If I'm correct, even Guitar Sinner carries it.

Since the XP uses a standard J bass electronics setup, you might want to buy a pre-wired harness (pots-cap-jack) and replace it yourself. A few years ago we had this discussion and it prompted me to replace the pots, cap and jack on my L2 (active pickups, passive J bass electronics). Like yours, my pots were pretty worn; and since I don't hold mythical believes in original parts or that my L2 will ever leave my hands... I replaced the old worn parts, just as one does with tires or brakes. Running smooth as ever. [smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]

- Gil
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby GonzoBass » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:21 am

Gil Escalera wrote:
Rob Francis wrote:I thought Gil nailed it with the no bridge ground quote [smilie=coz.gif]

Different bass, different issue Rob.
The "Workhorse" is his #1 Steinberger XP bass. It's passive.
The "Active" is his Steinberger XP-A bass. It of course is active.

The Workhorse has a buzzing issue, and the Active has an anemic tone compared to the Workhorse's tone.


'Zactly!
[smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]

Gil Escalera wrote:For cleaning pots I would suggest using Caig's DeoxIT Fader F5 cleaner/lubricant.

I learned this from you a while back
so I have a cleaner here with lubricant
(although it's a generic from Radio Shack :hid: )
but unfortunately these pots got straight contact cleaner for years and years.
So the damage was done...

Gil Escalera wrote:Since the XP uses a standard J bass electronics setup, you might want to buy a pre-wired harness (pots-cap-jack) and replace it yourself.


I see Butch has 'em listed HERE.

Image

You're absoluetly right.
Looks like the best way
and I would feel better doing it myself.

Gil Escalera wrote:A few years ago we had this discussion and it prompted me to replace the pots, cap and jack on my L2 (active pickups, passive J bass electronics). Like yours, my pots were pretty worn; and since I don't hold mythical believes in original parts or that my L2 will ever leave my hands... I replaced the old worn parts, just as one does with tires or brakes. Running smooth as ever. [smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]


Yes, I thought of replacing the one pot when I broke the split shaft
but feared changing the tone.
Now it's time.
This bass needs some upgrade TLC if I expect it to go on.

Thanks again Gil!!!
[smilie=food-smiley-004.gif]
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Aloha-
Papa Gonzo
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Location: Hilo, Hawaii
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Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
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Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby GonzoBass » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:32 pm

While I'm at it...
Think this would be worth it?
[smilie=confused-smiley-013.gif]

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Aloha-
Papa Gonzo
User avatar
GonzoBass
Global Bouncer
 
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Links: .
Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
Steinberger XP2 (B-E-A-D)
Steinberger XP2A (Back Up)
Wilkat GonzoBass #001
Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby MoBeach » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:35 pm

I like series/parallel switches, but do you want to alter your bass?
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Gil Escalera » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:53 pm

GonzoBass wrote:I learned this from you a while back
so I have a cleaner here with lubricant
(although it's a generic from Radio Shack :hid: )

That's good stuff! Does the same job. [smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]

GonzoBass wrote:I thought of replacing the one pot when I broke the split shaft
but feared changing the tone.
Now it's time.
This bass needs some upgrade TLC if I expect it to go on.

As long as you use quality components, there's no fear of any *major* tone changes. Typically the changes will be a better, stronger, clearer tone. [smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]

- Gil
To "B" or not to "B"... that is the question. ;)
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Gil Escalera » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:58 pm

The "Series" option is nice, I really like it on my G&L L2K BABP-LE.

Myself personally, I don't care for push-pull pots. I prefer a separate pot and switch which would require altering the bass as MoBeach noted. I wouldn't do it on my Steinie. [smilie=grinning-smiley-044.gif] YOMV.

- Gil
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby GonzoBass » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:04 am

After messaging back and forth with Butch over this,
I ended up just passing on the zany push/pull "upgrade" idea
[smilie=icon_rolleyes.gif]
and the original harness left Hawaii today,
on it's way to Louisiana to be cloned.

So I am confident that the whole situation is in far better qualified hands than mine now,
which is a huge load off my currently overburdened mind.
[smilie=cool-smiley-031.gif]
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Image

Aloha-
Papa Gonzo
User avatar
GonzoBass
Global Bouncer
 
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Links: .
Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
Steinberger XP2 (B-E-A-D)
Steinberger XP2A (Back Up)
Wilkat GonzoBass #001
Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Gil Escalera » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:16 am

GonzoBass wrote:After messaging back and forth with Butch over this, I ended up just passing on the zany push/pull "upgrade" idea [smilie=icon_rolleyes.gif]

Good call (IMO). [smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]

GonzoBass wrote:the original harness left Hawaii today, on it's way to Louisiana to be cloned.

Aloha. [smilie=cool-smiley-031.gif]

GonzoBass wrote:I am confident that the whole situation is in far better qualified hands than mine now, which is a huge load off my currently overburdened mind. [smilie=cool-smiley-031.gif]

No better hands than Butch's. [smilie=food-smiley-004.gif]

- Gil
To "B" or not to "B"... that is the question. ;)
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Rob Francis » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:26 pm

This has been an informative post.
Thanks guys!
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby GonzoBass » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:39 am

Picked up the new wire harness tonight on the way home from rehearsal.
Thanks Butch!
[smilie=food-smiley-004.gif]

Got it all back together
and it works (Woo hoo!!!)
but since it's 12:30 here,
I won't be able to crank it up till morning
and the real test will be through the 500MB/2x10
which is set up at the Palace for the play.

Thanks again Butch!
You rock!!!
[smilie=music-smiley-005.gif]
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Image

Aloha-
Papa Gonzo
User avatar
GonzoBass
Global Bouncer
 
Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Links: .
Tools:
Steinberger XP2 Workhorse (DB Bridge)
Steinberger XP2 (B-E-A-D)
Steinberger XP2A (Back Up)
Wilkat GonzoBass #001
Fender Deluxe 24 Fret Jazz
EBMM Stingray Natural/Maple
Xavier Custom 6 String
Ibanez AEB10K Acoustic
Dean Rhapsody 8 String
Carvin BK2A Fretless
Gibson EB3 (Project)
Epiphone Newport EBS
Synsonic Half Scale
Fender Mandolin
A couple Flea Ukuleles
and a few guitars...

Rigs:
Small-
GK MB112 combo
Medium-
GK MB500
GK 2x10 Neo
Large-
GK 1001 Mark II 2x10 combo
GK 1x15 RBS

Effects:
Line 6 Bass POD XT Live
BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer

Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby hoytbasses » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:36 am

one problem that can make for noisiness is a 'cold solder 'joint. especially if you had to re-solder to the back of a pot or your new wire. if the solder joint isn't clean or you didn't use a hot enough gun it can result in a joint that looks good but is only partially making contact (the rosin from the solder didn't dissipate around the joint causing it to sometimes get buzzy or lose contact completely).

re check that bridge wire connection to the jack. With the bass plugged in, wiggle that wire to see if it changes the buzz. if it is crackly or intermittent, you gots a cold solder joint. de-solder, clean the lug and re-solder.

the other culprit can be the coaxial cable where the ground is soldered to the back of the pot and the hot wire emerges from there to the potentiometer lug.

too much solder heat can melt the casing on the hot lead enough to partially short the hot wire but not enough to stop working....


While plugged in, gently wiggle the wire going to the center lug of each volume pot to see if any crackling/buzzing and closely inspect the wires as they come out of the coaxial cable. you may see a partially melted insulator coming out of the coaxial cable

finally, (you probably already did this ) take a little 320 grit sandpaper and clean the contact point of the jack. With all that salt air it might be just enough corrosion to cause the jack to partially make contact.

happy hunting....

kfh
There's nothing Passive about Passive pickups!
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby Gil Escalera » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:20 pm

Very good points and advice Arkl! [smilie=grinning-smiley-003.gif]

Gonzo sent the original harness to Butch and he built him a new one. He replaced the entire harness with the new one. [smilie=cool-smiley-031.gif]

- Gil
To "B" or not to "B"... that is the question. ;)
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Re: "The Workhorse" is Aging... Electrical Help?

Postby hoytbasses » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:30 pm

that works even better !

happy wednesday all

klar thoy
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