I've Friggin Had It


I've Friggin Had It

Postby ampig » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:44 am

Trying to get a good live EQ ina noisy bar has me about to give up playing URB live. My acoustic group has a steady once a month gig going in a small bas. The scenario- Owner keeps asking us to turn up, but the louder we play, the louder the patrons get. On top of that, I'm trying to run the soundboard and play. My rig is sounding anemic. Itry to adljust the eq on the fly and wind up sounding like an electric bass with no warmth. Readjust eq again..........now it's all tubby mid range $%@#$%^&
Ithink part of my problem is I'm using an Eden WT400 head. Great amp but very tricky to EQ (especially on the fly). plus it's a little to sterile soundingfor URB. I'm thinking of trading it for something of equal value that's more suited for the URB but will still function well as a backup head for Rock/Soul electric gigs. Any suggestions? I've heard that some people have good luck with GK stuff.
Howard

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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby Freddels » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:07 am

For my upright I prefer my EA iAmp500 into a wizzy or UL110.

What pickup are you using?
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby nolabass » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:11 am

Maybe try a Polytone Mini Brute or other small URB amp and mic it. Get your tone and mic the amp. Problem is, as players turn up the room acoustics change and you have to work on the fly either way. One of the reasons I use a PA board with some EQ options. As well I love and have used a Rane Parametric EQ. Those babies are great for finding and dialing in fixes if you know how to use one. Which is really simple. I hate that the unit I have has a huge wal-wart power supply though. The Ranes are a good deal used as they were 3-400 bucks new.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RANE-PE-15-PARAMETR ... dZViewItem
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby Mike Childree » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:29 am

Howard, I've had great luck with my EA rig (iAmp 800 + a pair of Wizzy 1x12" cabs). The iAmp has a very comprehensive eq section, but I rarely have to use it...the EA stuff seems to be perfectly voiced to run either flat, or maybe with one contour switch engaged. It also sounds great with electric bass, both my Lull and my Rob Allen. Again, very little tweaking required, but it's there if I need it.

You may need to investigate another pickup for your bass. That can make a world of difference. The Revolution Solo has worked well for me.
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby GLJeff » Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:49 pm

Have you checked out the Ned Steinberger designed Cello Basses? You can use standard bass strings or strings for a bow. They're also available in 5 string. I have serious GAS for one but not the funds. Oh it's the amp you want to trade!

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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby Golem » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:05 pm

`

Maybe you don't need a new amp, just a dirt box.

I've got a Fullertone Bass Driver and a Tech21 BassDriver DI. Love them both.I'd say the main difference is that Fullertone sounds more "authentic" at heavy drive levels while the Tech21 is also a great DI box. You don't need a whole lotta drive cranked in, just a little dirt to *sound* louder. Coolness about dirt is it increases your 'apparent sonic weight' without getting all boomy, so all your wood and air isn't reduced to sounding like a Fender bass, and you're not just begging for feedback.

I'm speaking from experience with large AGB's but the priciple ought to work the same.

More URB-specific: Howbout more arco? Longer notes, more scraping friction sound, less decay, all of which means you sound louder .... but more importantly you'll sound more URBish, even if you are forced into using an EQ that's sounding very Fenderish. Remember Papa John Creach, on fiddle, proving that arco can come across as very rocky and bloozy?

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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby GLJeff » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:16 pm

If you need a Tech21 programmable DI I'll sell mine cheap, it works well and definitely adds punch, clarity, presence etc but it doesn't fit my style. You can program 3 EQ settings into it and recall them with the stomp of a button.
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby ampig » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:40 pm

Here's my signal chain: K&K double pickup system (1 wing transducer plus 4 individual string transducers) - K&K Master Blender preamp - Behringer ADI - Eden WT 400 - Wizzy 10 cabinet. If any of you have ever used an Eden WT400, you know what I mean about EQ'ing them. They have endless tonal variations, but it ain't simple. I'm looking for something with a nice warm tone that I can dial in easily. An onboard parametric EQ wouldn't hurt.

I don't ARCO................... posting.php?mode=smilies&f=54#
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Howard

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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby GLJeff » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:16 pm

I'd go with an SVT or Hartke head in that case. I feel the same way about my GK. It took me forever to find the sound I wanted.
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby Freddels » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:58 pm

SVT's don't really seem to work with upright basses (at least I've never heard one). :)
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby harleyyy » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:05 pm

Ampeg / Upright inspiration...

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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby Tornadobass » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:22 pm

G&L_Jeff wrote:If you need a Tech21 programmable DI I'll sell mine cheap, it works well and definitely adds punch, clarity, presence etc but it doesn't fit my style. You can program 3 EQ settings into it and recall them with the stomp of a button.


This post gave me an idea...I have one of these programmable SansAmps and I plugged my EUB into the effects return of my Workingman's 12. There's a boost button that makes enough gain for that input...and it offers lots more tonal pallet than the amp's own EQ. Plus, much warmer than straight into the amp.

This thread also reminded me of the days of trying to play upright in a loud blues band...one day I realized that it wasn't worth the battle and switched to a EUB...things have gone much better now at any volume.
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby Mike Childree » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:36 am

"Anemic tone" is not something URB players usually have to worry about...I find myself trying to scale mine back some so I don't completely overpower everything else. Howard, I wonder if you don't have some kind of phase cancellation going on between your wing pickup and the individual elements? Is there a way that you can try one or the other alone to see if it beefs up your response? I used a K&K Bass Max wing pickup for years and it always sounded huge (although not as natural as the Revolution Solo that I use now).
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby noahvale » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:44 am

G&L_Jeff wrote:Have you checked out the Ned Steinberger designed Cello Basses? You can use standard bass strings or strings for a bow. They're also available in 5 string. I have serious GAS for one but not the funds. Oh it's the amp you want to trade![/img]

You know I gassed for years over the euro model 5 here at http://www.theperfectbass.com. Then I got an Ergo5. Since I've had it a while I've gone back and checked out the NS basses, including the cello bass. I like the Ergo way better. It sounds amazing. It has become the sound in my head, and I rarely ever play electric bass any more. The bass that the guy in TLE is using is I believe a King bass. It's designed to be amplified. And to be stepped on! They are really heavily braced and I've heard they don't really sound that good acoustically.
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Re: I've Friggin Had It

Postby oogie boogie » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:10 am

For my upright, I just use some cheesy Fishman on my plywood box and an SM-900 blackface, occasionally I'll put a Hughes and Kettner BATT in front of it. The SWR EQ is fairly similar to your Eden. No, EQ'ing it into sounding good isn't easy at first, but getting it at least decent is possible with a little practice. My upright bass is a laminate, so I'm not super worried about tone as much as I would be with a carved top. Nor am I playing a lot of arco or super sparse stuff that needs and deserves the rich tones of a carved top. If you're not playing a carved top, I would not be overly worried about your tone either, as it's just never going to be so amazing that you neesd to worry about it that much. What's more important is that you can be heard at volume without feeding back.

EQ'wise I tend to just roll the top off and leave everything else mostly flat with a just a touch-up in the mids unless I'm getting a ton of feedback.

Here are a couple things that may help: a fatty crutch tip on the pin so that you decouple with the floor, and some felt (or believe it or not, socks) in the sound holes. It sounds strange, but these things can make a difference. Also, standing facing a bit off to the side of your cabinet may help if you play close to it. While low frequency waves propagate omnidirectionally, if you're close to the drivers or the port/s of your cab and the top or back are facing them, it's a little easier for the cab to vibrate your box into feeding back. It's not going to make a whole lot of difference, but sometimes a couple of db.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you are mixing on the stage, close to your amp, and behind the PA speakers . Honestly, you can't have any idea what your tone sounds like in the house. That's why most bigger clubs have sound engineers. Your bass always sounds WAY bigger and louder offstage, even in a smaller club, so try not to fret too much. :smokin
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